Posted On: August 6, 2023

I initially put this in a comment on another post, but I want to make a post of it as well because I think it's important.

I think it's very easy for people who have no experience with the intelligence community (IC) to go “If he says he can't talk about it, that REALLY means he has no evidence” or to automatically think the person in question is lying.

And understandably so, considering the fact that the vast majority of people only hear these statements from politicians and others actively trying to hide misdeeds.

However, I'd like to share my experience as someone with parents in the IC, one of whom had a very high clearance level as he'd been working in NSA for literal decades.

When someone from the IC says “I can't talk about it,” what they are saying is, “What I have to say about this I have been ordered not to disclose to anyone, even my own family members.

Doing so would destroy my security clearance, put me at risk of a long prison sentence at the very least, and would violate the oaths to the country that I took when I accepted my position”.

I'll go even further into explanation, because people outside the sphere of the IC have NO IDEA what security clearance is.

Security clearance is what determines what kind of information you have access to, and how much of it.

This can range from something as benign as knowledge of where Navy ships are located to…well, life-altering evidence of UAPs.

Whenever someone goes ”up” in security clearance, that means that they have access to new, more classified information than they did before.

In order to gain security clearance, not only do you have to have the prerequisite job experience, you also have to undergo a lengthy, stressful, and intrusive set of tests and interviews.

The higher your security clearance, the more invasive these tests are. Generally, they include high-pressure polygraph test (yeah, yeah, polygraphs are inadmissible in court, that doesn't stop the government from using them, because the point of using them isn't to get court-admissible truth, it's to freak you the fuck out and get you to crack under pressure).

They also include interviews with not only all of your current and former bosses and colleagues, but also your friends, family, doctors, acquaintances, neighbors, former teachers, at higher levels, the government will pretty much interview anyone you have ever had even passing contact with.

During these interviews, they will ask of your contacts super invasive questions meant to dig up ANY kind of dirt you may have in your past.

To give you an idea of how ridiculously intense these tests are, the parent I mentioned earlier was forced into an early retirement by the agency when he couldn't pass his security clearance.

Why did he fail?.

Because he had reconnected with and had been exchanging emails with a childhood friend, an American who moved to Germany and became a reverend. Because this childhood friend no longer lived in America and had dual citizenship, my parent was unable to pass his security clearance and was asked not-so-nicely to leave early.

In case you weren't aware Germany is a fucking US ally.

My parent had to leave the IC because at one point he had a friendship with someone who now holds dual citizenship with an allied nation.

If you do gain security clearance, the agency you work for will have you take strict oaths of secrecy (at least at the highest levels, at lower levels they mostly just scare you off ever telling anything to anyone).

You also take oaths to your country, and you are told that if you spill the beans, you will have committed treason and are no better than a terrorist.

I want you to keep this in mind:.

The overwhelming majority of the IC is composed of former US Military personnel.

These are people who really, genuinely love the USA, who have fought in wars for it, who have witnessed friends die for it.

And they went beyond their required 4 years of service, most of them serve in the armed forces for, at minimum, 10 years before moving to the IC. They are hardcore patriots, and they truly believe that what they are doing keeps the country that they love safe.

So when the agency that they work for tells them “If you talk about this to anyone, you are committing treason,” they take that seriously.

This is why so many people in the IC HATE Edward Snowden. When they see Edward Snowden, they don't see a whistleblower.

They see a terrorist.

They see someone who lied all the way through all of those rigorous tests with the express purpose of endangering his country, and duping the agency he worked for.

They see someone who is deeply unpatriotic, who compromised the security of the nation that they fought and were willing to die for.

Beyond that, violating your security clearance is career suicide.

These are people who have worked for DECADES in their fields.

They are career military, they are IN IT.

They don't know any other career path, and furthermore they don't WANT anything else.

And losing that career would destroy them.

It devastated my parent who was forced into retirement, and he didn't even like his job anymore.

He hated his coworkers and his boss and the whole environment by the end, but he refused to quit until he was forced to because he was so dedicated to doing what he did (and, let's be honest, also because he was brainwashed by the military and agency every single working day of his life from age 18, he couldn't imagine things any other way).

It is impossible to overstate exactly how big of a deal it is that Grusch stepped forward.

He just committed career suicide, and he is exactly the kind of by-the-book hardcore career military officer that will be devastated by that.

But remember, the one thing that these people value more than their careers is their country.

Grusch stepped forward because he believed that it was his patriotic duty to violate everything he has ever been taught from day one, and that tells me exactly how serious his claims are.

When someone like Grusch says “I can't talk about it,” they mean that fucking literally.

They mean that talking about it will get them imprisoned and, or killed.

Post from user kogasfurryjorts at at reddit.

Posted On: August 6, 2023

I initially put this in a comment on another post, but I want to make a post of it as well because I think it's important.

I think it's very easy for people who have no experience with the intelligence community (IC) to go “If he says he can't talk about it, that REALLY means he has no evidence” or to automatically think the person in question is lying.

And understandably so, considering the fact that the vast majority of people only hear these statements from politicians and others actively trying to hide misdeeds.

However, I'd like to share my experience as someone with parents in the IC, one of whom had a very high clearance level as he'd been working in NSA for literal decades.

When someone from the IC says “I can't talk about it,” what they are saying is, “What I have to say about this I have been ordered not to disclose to anyone, even my own family members.

Doing so would destroy my security clearance, put me at risk of a long prison sentence at the very least, and would violate the oaths to the country that I took when I accepted my position”.

I'll go even further into explanation, because people outside the sphere of the IC have NO IDEA what security clearance is.

Security clearance is what determines what kind of information you have access to, and how much of it.

This can range from something as benign as knowledge of where Navy ships are located to…well, life-altering evidence of UAPs.

Whenever someone goes ”up” in security clearance, that means that they have access to new, more classified information than they did before.

In order to gain security clearance, not only do you have to have the prerequisite job experience, you also have to undergo a lengthy, stressful, and intrusive set of tests and interviews.

The higher your security clearance, the more invasive these tests are. Generally, they include high-pressure polygraph test (yeah, yeah, polygraphs are inadmissible in court, that doesn't stop the government from using them, because the point of using them isn't to get court-admissible truth, it's to freak you the fuck out and get you to crack under pressure).

They also include interviews with not only all of your current and former bosses and colleagues, but also your friends, family, doctors, acquaintances, neighbors, former teachers, at higher levels, the government will pretty much interview anyone you have ever had even passing contact with.

During these interviews, they will ask of your contacts super invasive questions meant to dig up ANY kind of dirt you may have in your past.

To give you an idea of how ridiculously intense these tests are, the parent I mentioned earlier was forced into an early retirement by the agency when he couldn't pass his security clearance.

Why did he fail?.

Because he had reconnected with and had been exchanging emails with a childhood friend, an American who moved to Germany and became a reverend. Because this childhood friend no longer lived in America and had dual citizenship, my parent was unable to pass his security clearance and was asked not-so-nicely to leave early.

In case you weren't aware Germany is a fucking US ally.

My parent had to leave the IC because at one point he had a friendship with someone who now holds dual citizenship with an allied nation.

If you do gain security clearance, the agency you work for will have you take strict oaths of secrecy (at least at the highest levels, at lower levels they mostly just scare you off ever telling anything to anyone).

You also take oaths to your country, and you are told that if you spill the beans, you will have committed treason and are no better than a terrorist.

I want you to keep this in mind:.

The overwhelming majority of the IC is composed of former US Military personnel.

These are people who really, genuinely love the USA, who have fought in wars for it, who have witnessed friends die for it.

And they went beyond their required 4 years of service, most of them serve in the armed forces for, at minimum, 10 years before moving to the IC. They are hardcore patriots, and they truly believe that what they are doing keeps the country that they love safe.

So when the agency that they work for tells them “If you talk about this to anyone, you are committing treason,” they take that seriously.

This is why so many people in the IC HATE Edward Snowden. When they see Edward Snowden, they don't see a whistleblower.

They see a terrorist.

They see someone who lied all the way through all of those rigorous tests with the express purpose of endangering his country, and duping the agency he worked for.

They see someone who is deeply unpatriotic, who compromised the security of the nation that they fought and were willing to die for.

Beyond that, violating your security clearance is career suicide.

These are people who have worked for DECADES in their fields.

They are career military, they are IN IT.

They don't know any other career path, and furthermore they don't WANT anything else.

And losing that career would destroy them.

It devastated my parent who was forced into retirement, and he didn't even like his job anymore.

He hated his coworkers and his boss and the whole environment by the end, but he refused to quit until he was forced to because he was so dedicated to doing what he did (and, let's be honest, also because he was brainwashed by the military and agency every single working day of his life from age 18, he couldn't imagine things any other way).

It is impossible to overstate exactly how big of a deal it is that Grusch stepped forward.

He just committed career suicide, and he is exactly the kind of by-the-book hardcore career military officer that will be devastated by that.

But remember, the one thing that these people value more than their careers is their country.

Grusch stepped forward because he believed that it was his patriotic duty to violate everything he has ever been taught from day one, and that tells me exactly how serious his claims are.

When someone like Grusch says “I can't talk about it,” they mean that fucking literally.

They mean that talking about it will get them imprisoned and, or killed.

Post from user kogasfurryjorts at at reddit.